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BOSTON – Despo Lialiou of Aristotle University of Thessaloniki was the professor of Elpidophoros Lambriniades, the current Archbishop of America, who marked and influenced his life and career for many years. To her he owes his academic advancement, as well as his broader career, but as it turns out, Professor Lialiou did not know him thoroughly. Now that she has come to know him, she has begun speaking.
Excerpts from her interview with the Greek Edition of The National Herald follows:
The National Herald: Mrs. Lialiou, I thank you for agreeing to speak to The National Herald. You were Professor at the Faculty of Theology and Vice-Rector for Academic and Administrative Affairs of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (A.U.T.H.). You were also supervisor of a plethora of doctoral dissertations of professors at the A.U.T.H. and of metropolitans and bishops. Although you were very active academically at the A.U.T.H. and on a church level at the Ecumenical Patriarchate, all of a sudden you seemed to disappear from the face of the Earth.
Despo Lialiou: I thank you as well, Mr. Kalmoukos, for giving me the opportunity to speak from a public platform.
TNH: Naturally, in this first discussion I am interested in the matters of our church in the United States. You will agree, of course, that the situation here affects broader mission of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Allow me, however, to focus on issues concerning our Church here. Now that we came to know each other, perhaps we can meet either in America, or at the Patriarchate, if you continue to go there – or we can talk again…
DL: You are right. This is the major issue, given that the Greek Archdiocese in the USA is the major eparchy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. The Phanar needs this Eparchy as a support for its ecumenical mission, but you need the Phanar even more for your own spiritual existence, as do all Orthodox, to be precise. Indeed, it would not be an exaggeration to say that the whole world needs the Ecumenical Patriarchate, although we do not have time now to fully explain why.
Patriarch Bartholomew during a ceremony honoring him with the
medal of St. Demetrios. (Photo provided by Professor Despo Lialiou)
TNH: How do you feel about one of your students, Elpidophoros Lambriniadis, becoming Archbishop of America?
DL: This question is raised in a contemporary context. I would have answered you differently almost four years ago! First of all, such major decisions regarding the appointment of Archbishops belong exclusively to the responsibilities of the Patriarch himself, to whom we owe obedience, absolute trust, and support. This does not mean that we and others must remain silent. As for me, however, I remain with a sense of an overall concern and an excessive disquiet, which explains the element of anxiousness for what may follow, to say the least.
TNH: Did you expect something like this? Now, after almost four years and given all he is undertaking, do you think he is fit to be Archbishop of America? Do you not think that the entourage he brought with him to America, some of whom have probably been your students, is a problem? Or am I wrong?
DL: Mr. Kalmoukos, your questions are literally tempestuous. To answer your question, I would have to devote myself to writing. I would have to delegate myself to write a whole chapter of my memoirs, but I will shorten my comments here. I am following, like everyone else here in Greece, the events in your Church. What can I say? I remain aghast, and also feel ashamed.
I am aware that many hold me somehow responsible for his and his entourage’s doings, as you say, not only here in Greece, but also in America. There are also many who think alike in Thessaloniki, at the Patriarchate, and beyond. In no way will I hide myself. I am a human being who, from 1990, when I became a lecturer at the A.U.T.H. until my retirement in August 2017, spent 27 years moving, my belongings in open boxes, without being able to settle permanently. Some boxes in the basement are still open to this day. I spent 27 years sleeping every second and third day because of an incredible workload and because I couldn’t give up studying at the same time. I was unable to make sense of how fanatics think and behave. I could not understand how narrow-minded and self-serving theologians could be interested only in making money, projecting themselves and seeking the favor of metropolitans, archbishops, and patriarchs. So I could not keep track of the cliques, set up by my students, even aligned against me, as it subsequently turned out. Mr. Kalmoukos, it is impossible for me, or I am inadequate to create anything evil, but when I become aware of it, I confront it uprightly and courageously.
occasion of the liberation of Thessaloniki from the Turks. (Photo provided by Professor Despo Lialiou)
Now, to the point. I did not see the Archbishop in person after his election, nor was I invited by him to his enthronement. During one of his visits to Thessaloniki he asked me to accompany him to see the Metropolitan of Thessaloniki, together with his entourage of four or five persons. I thought he wanted to pay his respects. Indeed, we were welcomed by Metropolitan Anthimos, whom I have known for decades as a member of the religious circle of my elder, the Metropolitan of Kozani. At this meeting, he asked for the secondment of Mr. Stamkopoulos. Clearly he set me up to go with them, so that Metropolitan Anthimos would not deny him the request. And he didn’t deny it.
Subsequently, at an unexpected time, as his enthronement was approaching, I received a call from a travel agency, informing me that if I wanted to go to the enthronement, I only had to send a photocopy of my passport, without any other information. When I phoned Mr. Stamkopoulos, he told me that he had already gotten a ticket and would be staying in USA for five days. So, I told him that I would get on the same flight. It was an opportunity for me to travel, either alone or together, to Boston, to see the Library of Hellenic College/Holy Cross, and pay a visit to Fathers Dragas and Clapsis. I also wanted to surprise Mrs. Bartholomiou, who had asked me to inquire about her family roots, to inform her that we traced her father back to the students of our Faculty of Philosophy in the year 1933-1934, originating, in fact, from the ‘Katafygio of Kozani’, (like my great-grandfather), of the renowned Kretos family.
a speech at the University of Thessaloniki. (Photo provided by Professor Despo Lialiou)
At one point, however, Mr. Stamkopoulos conveyed to me by telephone the Archbishop’s order: that he forbids me to go to Boston. And because when I took this call I was with a large party, they heard what I shouted in exasperation: “Let them all go and drown themselves in Long Island.” Anyway, I pretended not to understand. I was informed by people and the whole world and every Tom, Dick, and Harry who went to the enthronement, that the Archbishop said I didn’t go because I was afraid of airplanes! (In this way he trapped me, so that I also didn’t go to the enthronement of my Buenos Aires student par excellence, Mr. Joseph Bosch. And he thinks he succeeded and got past his lie: “she is afraid of planes…”).
Combining a variety of occurrences – I can say that I have received the ‘confessions’ so to speak, of 4/5 of the A.U.T.H.who have confided in me as Vice Rector, being always available to everyone and, (plus I now hear the confessions of the ‘repentant ones’…) – I realized that his lies span a period of about 20 years, almost since receiving his doctorate in 2001.
It should be noted, that for all three of his ordinations I personally organized a trip to the Polis, bringing people from Thessaloniki and beyond, so that the A.U.T.H. would not be absent, and so that he would not feel alone – at least for the first two.
Mr. Kalmoukos, because you wrote that the man (Elpidophoros) behaved thanklessly to Fr. Clapsis, who invited him to teach for a semester, let me tell you the whole truth about this. In 2003, because three Faculty of Theology members from the Department of Theology of A.U.T.H. had gone to Boston to teach for three years, I declared that I would go for the year 2004 from the Department of Pastoral Studies of the Theology Faculty of A.U.T.H. It should also be noted that I was acting on behalf of the A.U.T.H, who had co-drafted this agreement with Fr. Clapsis as Dean of Holy Cross on behalf of HC/HC – regardless of the fact that my colleague Ms. Koukoura, an assistant Professor at that time in the Department of Theology, was appointed ‘coordinator’ for the A.U.T.H. by the Vice-Rector Mrs. Gimpa of A.U.T.H, perhaps because of her connection to Archbishop Demetrios. I didn’t want to make a fuss about this interference by my colleague, neither at that time nor during my Vice-Rectorate during 2010-2014. Well, at the last meeting in June 2003 I asked my Department (as President), to send this new PhD graduate (Elpidophoros) instead of me to Boston in 2004, and Fr. Clapsis extended the time of his stay in Boston to six months and even gave him his office for his work. So he went to Boston in my place!
Dragas was presented with an honorary doctorate at the
University of Thessaloniki. (Photo provided by Professor Despo Lialiou)
TNH: In your opinion, what can the Church and the Greek-American Community expect from him?
DL: Mr. Kalmoukos, you wrote that he is an “unadvisable” person. I would say that any opinion is superfluous, including mine, therefore. I heard something about a “senile old hag,” it may even have been with malice. (And I’m thinking: what will they’ll say about the Patriarch who is 11 years older than me?) “So, leaving his High priesthood aside,” as they say in the Polis, isn’t that enough? Praise the Lord of Glory for his insults as well! The show he puts on about the supposed position of women will continue with paid advertisements of course, and paid speeches to the world… Philosophically, theoretically, that is, I am willing not only to answer but to discuss your question, in another context. If this question had been put to me before he arrived in the USA, I would have answered you precisely about what the Church and the Greek-American Community should do.
TNH: How far did you go in supporting him?
DL: With all my heart and with all my mind, as with all of them – a little more with him, because he had a difficult early life and childhood; he was ‘wounded’. But how can I make guesses about how each human responds to such circumstances, how can I make judgements?
TNH: What happened with the writing of his dissertation, and his books? Who else contributed in writing them?
DL: As you said, I have been a faculty advisor to many doctoral and postgraduate students. I corrected all the PhDs and MAs. I have thoroughly corrected the dissertations of others who are also faculty members in all the theological schools. The problem with this Hierarch of America is that he didn’t go back over the corrections to understand what was corrected, in order to further educate himself.
In any case, no one is to blame if the archrchpriestly vestment (sakkos) of the Archbishop of America has remained empty. It is his personal responsibility, and his responsibility alone. He was given ample opportunities to educate himself, so that he would acquire a basic self-knowledge of what he is doing and saying: Germany, the Patriarchal Library, Halki, Thessaloniki, my electronic archive, as well as the electronic archives of other colleagues. He has learned nothing from our Patriarch, who, when speaking extemporaneously is far better than when reading prepared texts, as is natural. Indeed, I say: Can’t someone collect all that the Patriarch has spoken of the cuff, transcribe it, or even publish the recording, so that all may understand what constitutes an ‘educational speech’.
TNH: How did he persuade you to promote him? Were you not aware of whom you were dealing with?
DL: I was analytical in my answers to your first questions, in order to make clear how I think. It was not only Mr. Elpidophoros that ‘was promoted’. I don’t wish to count now how many faculty members of both departments of our Faculty of Theology, of Athens University as well, were assisted, and under what conditions other scientific staff provided support, and what resources of the Faculty and the Department were used, even what kind of organizations of the A.U.T., towards what was ultimately achieved.
Yes, this Hierarch of America was helped the most, because I felt sorry for his father too, who continuously was calling me in agony. In relation to all the university staff, this Archbishop met relatively all the preconditions. If Mr. Elpidophoros came out illiterate and presumptuous at the same time, as I read, I will say again, it is his responsibility, as well as his responsibility that he did not enrich his theological and ecclesiastical training (17 years inside the Phanar!) and he exposes his position with his incredible improvisations of uneducated speech and his foolish acts and his actions of a blithe sensationalism, all of which is not based on anything. He is better off not speaking and not doing anything. Moreover, I could never be a police officer for people, or for their choices, nor did I have time, a lifetime being sleepless. Now that I have time, I follow events, and I am saddened, especially saddened that the Patriarch is being insulted.
TNH: Do you regret having helped him?
DL: We repent for our sins, not for people – the latter is idolatrous, a sign of conceit and individual self-sufficiency! As long as we live, life itself offers solutions for problems, which means that each of us takes responsibility for our failures or not. I have already assumed my own responsibilities with what I have said so far.
Note: Anyway, the appropriation of my research projects, literary structures and forms related to the Faculty and the Department, and beyond them, this will be remedied, willingly or not! They are not mainly about me. Only the reports that I have signed are particularly about me, and they are about all those who have worked, too. I have told you that for me it is impossible to think in evil ways, but once I have detected evil around me, there is no way not to expose and fight it. Since Fall 2020, I resigned from all committees, for graduate, post-graduate, doctoral, and post-doctoral candidates, because it was impossible for me to coexist with people who behave like the neighborhood thieves. I did, however, wait for Joseph, then Bishop of Patara and now Metropolitan of Buenos Aires and South America, to complete his Post-Doctoral Research, and this is precisely why I even accepted to become Emeritus – a gift which I shall return to the A.U.T. in due course.
of the Macedonian Struggle. (Photo provided by Professor Despo Lialiou)
TNH: Would you like to comment: a) on the proposed threefold Hierarchical Commemoration (Patriarch-Archbishop-Local Metropolitan) in the Divine Liturgy and in other services, and b) on the dethronement of Metropolitan Evangelos of New Jersey and the Holy Synod’s decision to suspend Methodios of Boston from his Archpastoral ministry for three months?
DL: The appeal-process falls under the direct jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate for all Orthodox Christians, maintaining the inviolable principle of the Protos (Primate) Hierarch, the Ecumenical Patriarch. This principle is not circumvented by suggestions, such as, double and triple commemoration proposed by the salaried-patriarchal deacon, and dreams about panorthodox federalization dreamt by circles at Oxford and St. Sergius, the flagship of the Russians. Let anyone accuse me and adorn me with whatever adjectives they may have in their intellectual arsenal and let them begin their opposition to me with little papers and lists of bibliographies.
This phenomenon was experienced by you in America, which left us aghast, and was afterwards proved to have been a plot of Mr. Elpidophoros, that is, a lie with deceit. Two Metropolitans were denounced directly to the Synod of the Patriarchate, which is Endemousa (Sojourning everywhere in the Ecumene) even in our days, and without any apology – one of them, the Metropolitan of New Jersey, was literally decapitated (I learned that they even threw him a party – shame on him in the Archdiocese – as receiver of a higher position than Mr. Elpidophoros in the Order of Seniority of the Ecumenical Throne), because that was what the Archbishop had planned to do, before his arrival there – to snatch the Metropolis from him – for in any case, he would have found an accusation, because ‘the donkey’ too, according to the legend, ‘ate the lettuce without vinegar’. The Metropolitan of Boston, the second-ranking Metropolitan of the Eparchial Synod, was punished, if I am not mistaken, also without apology. “Here I come,” that is to say, the childish one, [Archbishop Elpidophoros] “and I spread terror, and want everything under my ignorant control, and terrorize bishops and priests,” and “I do not have to think about the Holy and Sacred Synod of the Patriarchate that is Endemousa and the Primatial Patriarchate” – which is the Patriarchate of all Orthodox. Thus, it is the 6th canon of the Second Ecumenical Council that needs to be applied here (although it was added later) concerning the correction, the punishment after the disclosure of the plot! Indeed – this canon was probably drawn up to put a brake on false accusations, especially regarding the highest organ of ecclesiastical authority, for that is how the Endemousa works after 382 AD, and therefore, it suggests the same punishment – removal from office. That is, of course, an adoption of Roman Law. Essentially, a borrowing from the democratic functioning of Greek cities was the antidote.
TNH: When was the last time he contacted you?
DL: That time he wanted to use me as an ornament, but let me explain. It was last year, about this time, when he had to come, for something, I don’t know what, here to Thessaloniki, to launch some plan regarding the Rectory, in the city of St. Demetrios. Incredible events unfolded, a scene of exaggeration and terror, I guess, so that his insurance company would be compensated… and with my presence I would ‘cover’ the transatlantic extravaganza and all the goods and ‘honors’. I don’t know how the Patriarch, seeing these pictures, didn’t give him a ‘slap across the face’.
of St. George at the Phanar. (Photo provided by Professor Despo Lialiou)
Despo Lialiou – Personal data:
Born in Namata, Voiou, Kozani (1950).
1968: Graduation from the Lyceum of Eratyra, Kozani;
1968-1972: Degree in Philosophy, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki; employment at the Folklore Museum and Archive under Dr. Alki Kyriakidou-Nestoros
1972-1975: Degree in Theology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki
1975-1977: Postgraduate studies at the Theological Faculty of Aristotle University
1978-1981, Scholarship of the IKY, St. Andrews University Scotland (PhD)
1985: PhD in Theology, Department of Pastoral Studies, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki
1988-1990: Postdoctoral studies at the Evagelische Fakültät Tübingen (Germany)
1972-1990: Professor of Literature in Secondary Education
1990: Lecturer
1992: Assistant Professor
1997: Associate Professor
2001-2017: Professor
Instruction: Taught the course on Interpretation of Doctrinal and Symbolic Texts at undergraduate and graduate level, which she organized. From time to time she taught History of Philosophy, Symbolic and Ecumenical Movement, Dogmatics and History of Doctrine. From 2004 to 2010 she co-taught, in collaboration, the course Applications of Information Technology in Theology, and in collaboration, the course Theology, Science and Environment.
Administrative experience:
A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki
2003-2005: Rector of the School
2005-2007 & 2007-2009: Vice Rector of the School
1999-2001: Director of the Department of History, Doctrine, Inter-Orthodox and Inter-Christian Relations
2003-2010: Director of the Postgraduate Program of the School
2005-2012: Director of the Scientific Yearbook of the School
2016-2017: Director of the Department of History, Doctrine, Inter-Orthodox and Inter-Christian Relations
2004-2010: Director of the Department of Worship, Archaeology and Art
2005-2010: School Representative to the Research Committee
2005-2017: Scientific Head of the Research Thematic Network of the KEEP, which has organized seventeen scientific workshops-conferences
2003-2006, 2008-2010: Member of the Supervisory Committee of the Central Library of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki
2004-2012 Organization and Management of the Computer Lab of the School
1991-1997/2003-2010: Οrganization of the first European student exchange programs of the School SOCRATES/ERASMUS
1994-1997: Establishment and coordination of the project Organization of the Library of the Faculty of Theology under the Dean Professor Nikos Matsoukas, through which the Library of the Faculty of Theology was organized in its present form, as reflected in the six Reports of Activities, as well as the Department of Palaitypa-Antiquarian books.
2012 Final presenter of the School’s New Undergraduate Programs, the English-language Undergraduate and Postgraduate Programs, and the research structures that came out of the thematic Network for Textual and Interpretive Church Tradition KEEP (Centre of St. Demetrius and St. Gregory Palamas and the Centre of Apostle Paul).
Administrative Experience
B.
2010 – 2014 Vice Chancellor-elect for Academic Affairs and Personnel – Deputy Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Personnel
2010 (November)
2012 (May) President of the School of Journalism and Mass Communication of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki by decision of the Senate. During her term of office the School gained administrative autonomy and elected its first President.
2010-2014 Vice Rector of Academic Affairs and Personnel- President of the Quality Assurance Unit. All the reports of office as Vice-Rector for Academic Affairs and Personnel and as President of the Quality Assurance Unit (MO.DI.P.) are available on the website of the MO.DI.P. of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki: https://qa.auth.gr/el/node/5533
Studies – Research:
‘Greek Philosophy and Christian Tradition in St. Gregory of Nazianzus: Unity – Triplicity’ (Doctoral dissertation), St. Andrews University (U.K.), 1981, pp. 289.
‘The Interpretation of the Holy Scriptures in the Theology of St. Gregory of Theologian’ (Doctoral dissertation), Athens 1985, p. 204.
‘Interpretation of the Doctrinal and Symbolic Texts of the Orthodox Church’, vol. A΄.
‘Interpretation of the Ecumenical Symbols and the related canons’ (Theological analysis with references to the sources), Thessaloniki 1992, p. 175 (with the Appendix of the texts, p. 205). Kyriakidis, Thessaloniki 2017.
‘Interpretation of the Doctrinal and Symbolic Texts of the Orthodox Church’, vol. B, Interpretation of the Exposition of the Disputations, of the B and C Epistles of St. Cyril to Nestorius and of the related canons of the Third Ecumenical Synod, Thessaloniki 1994, p. 375 (with the Appendix of the texts, p. 404).
‘Gregoriana A’ (Philosophical and Theological Library 35), Thessaloniki 1997, p. 328.
‘Gregoriana B’, and ‘Symmikta’ (Philosophical and Theological Library 36), Thessaloniki 1998, p. 489.
‘Interpretation of the Doctrinal and Symbolic Texts of the Orthodox Church’, vol. C´, Interpretation of the Memoranda of St. ‘Cyril of Alexandria’ (Philosophical and Theological Library 44), Thessaloniki 2000, p. 478 (after the Appendix of texts p. 520). Kyriakidis, Thessaloniki 2017.
‘Church, World – Man’ (Philosophical and Theological Library 45), Thessaloniki 2000, p. 180.
Director of the scientific series Theology and the World of Kyriakidis Publications (15 volumes) and editor of the work of Prof. Nikos Matsoukas since 1998.
Additional note:
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